Rank your Buckeyes you would take in Matta era to win u a NC

[victor2111]

Rank what Buckeyes you would take to start your team, to give you the best possible odds of winning 1NC for you. Remember how long each player will be here(Oden, Conley 1 yr, Sully 2 years, Craft 4years, Turner 3yrs, etc). Take that into account, you don't get Oden for 4 years. you do get a healthy Greg Oden for 1 year. You only get them for how long they were here.

Here are a list of some Buckeye players in the Matta era to give you a hint:
Mike Conley(1yr)
Sullinger(Jared & JJ)
Jamar Butler
Terrence Dials
Ron Lewis
Evan Turner(3yr)
Greg Oden(1yr)
Aaron Craft
LaQuinton Ross
David Lighty
Jekel Foster
Jon Diebler
Matt Sylvester
DeShaun Thomas(3yr)
Ivan Harris
Othello Hunter(2yrs)
Byron Mullens(1yr)
Kosta Koufos(1yr)
Daquean Cook(1yr)
Greg Oden(1yr)
Sam Thompson
William Buford

etc. There might be others I'm forgetting but that is just a list to make you remember some of the Buckeyes in the Matta era. I'll do a list of 15 player because I feel that is a good #.

#1. Greg Oden
#2. Mike Conley
#3. Aaron Craft
#4. Jared Sullinger
#5. Evan Turner
#6. DeShaun Thomas
#7. Jon Diebler
#8. David Lighty
#9. Terrence Dials
#10. William Buford
#11. LaQuinton Ross
#12. Ron Lewis
#13. Jamar Butler

Actually I'm just going do a top 13. I think once you get here, JJ Sullinger, Jekel Foster, Matt Sylvester, Mullens, Cook, Kofous, Harris, Thompson, etc are very close.

Why I picked my 13
- Oden #1 because he is elite Center. By himself he gave us a chance to beat Florida(elite team) in the NC game. One year of Greg Oden gives me a great chance to win an NC as long as I build a solid team around him.
- Conley #2 because I think it is the same as Oden in a important position. Conley Jr made everyone better. He could score himself, he played defense, he could create for others. He was the perfect PG. Even for one year I will take my chance with him.
- Craft #3 because he dominates and I get him 4years. Elite defense, great Buckeye. Everything you want. Craft is a great 1B though. He is not an A. He needs help on offense. But I get 4years of him and that is 4years knowing I have the best warrior there is.
- Sullinger #4 because he was great down low for two years. I get two years of 18/10 basically. I can do a lot with that. He played BIG.
- Turner #5 because he was great. Can you believe Turner is #5 though? We're talking about the NPOY and you get him for 3 years. Project his first year, Very good his second year, Elite his last year. You get two great years of Turner who can win you games by himself. That is hard to past up.

I think the top 5 is hard. You can really move these guys around and I think everyone list of the top 5 will be different. Oden/Conley only one year players but I think they give me a great chance of winning a NC in one year. Craft for 4 over Sully for 2 & Turner for 3? That is tough to say. What do you value more? Very hard.


- #6-#13 is a very tough list also. Thomas was a great scorer, Diebler great shooter, Lighty did everything good, Dials was B10POY his last year, he was a very good down low guy, Buford was solid, Butler was a very solid PG/SG combo, Ross is starting to come on, Ron Lewis was clutch and could score for you. All these players were here for a while also, so no one and done. These guys are not Elite options but they're ALL very good #2. I guess it really depends on what you want? It was hard to rate. I almost put Diebler #6 because I get one extra year out of him over Thomas, but Thomas became a 20/6 guy. Tough to pass up, he was a elite scorer.




Just thought it was a good topic right now. The list is pretty hard to do. Ohio State has had some really talented players in the Matta era. ALso shows if people look at guys staying here longer than one year bring more value?

[Deleted]

I personally don't see how you could take Craft over Sully or Turner. If it was your personal favorites list, then that would be one thing but it was a list of the best talent and those two are definitely more talented.

[victor2111]

Mar 7, 2014 22:20:24 GMT -5 @theurbaneffect said:

I personally don't see how you could take Craft over Sully or Turner. If it was your personal favorites list, then that would be one thing but it was a list of the best talent and those two are definitely more talented.

Fair points.

I think it is closer than you put. Craft is not the most talented but he is better team player, defender, and Craft can get to the hoop. If you get a decent BIG or 3pt shooter on the team, his offense would be better.

Turner is elite. Dominates the ball though. Bad at defense.


Craft has been the same player for four years. He has played 30MPG since he was a freshman. I know I'm getting 4 very good years out of him. I'm getting 4 great years of defense. 4 years of a guy who can run the point. At times, he has proven he can take over a game with scoring, just once in a while. He is pretty damn good. He needs some help on offense though. He needs a post low guy or 3pt shooter on his team(Something he doesn't have this year).

Turner is great. He can get your a triple double. I would get two years of Turner to help win me a NC(he played 3 but his freshman year I don't think he was that great). His defense is not good though. He dominates the ball. He was a elite college player but I feel like Craft might be a better "team" player. If I need one guy to win a game by himself, I would take Evan Turner. If I need a guy to be a team player and win me a game, I'm taking Aaron Craft. I think you need a team to win a NC. I think Aaron Craft is a better fit for a NC team and I get 4 years to do it.

Sullinger is great. Two great years. Probably should put him #3 over Craft honestly. Two years to win a NC with him. He was a solid 18/10 guy for you. You knew what you was getting and he was that down low guy Ohio State has missed a lot of years.


Those three are close in my opinion. I think Aaron Craft has a great impact on the game. More than some people believe. I think if the team is built around him, he can be a big part of why a team won the NC. It is not just favorite player, or most talented player, it is "Who do I think I could most likely win me 1NC with". So I think you could make the arguments that you've a better chance to win a NC with Craft for 4 years. They're close. I didn't think about it as much as I should had.

I think a team like this year, Evan Turner is a better fit to take you farther. His offense would be better. I think a team like Turner had, with Diebler/Lighty/etc, Craft might have taken them farther with his defense and leadership.


All 3 are great options. Turner will have his # retired here. Sullinger/Craft will always be remembered for what they did here for good reason. It was really hard to rank them. Craft is not the most talented, I agree 100% with that, but his impact on the game is HUGE, and has been since he was a freshman.

[Deleted]

Let me ask you this question. And I will preface it by saying I really enjoy Craft's hustle and determination on the court.

Do you think Craft makes those around him better?

[angrybaldman]

You need craft for defense, plus a good locker room / intangibles guy which Evan was not. Evan needed for things to revolve around him, but on a team like this he would sulk and pout.

I agree with Vic's list, I'd have Jamar Butler higher. Might need another big in there

[victor2111]

Mar 7, 2014 23:30:13 GMT -5 @theurbaneffect said:

Let me ask you this question. And I will preface it by saying I really enjoy Craft's hustle and determination on the court.

Do you think Craft makes those around him better?

That is a great questions bro, and yes I do think he makes those around him better. He has done it his whole career. Aaron Craft problem is he can't shoot but he doesn't let that hurt his team as much as it could. He could be forcing shots but he doesn't. He tries to create but that is a very tough thing to do on this team.

He is not "great" on offense but he can be perfectly fine at PG at the college level if the right pieces are around him. This team doesn't have that because this team has no offense at all(besides Ross). No 3pt shooters, No post game. So all the defense has to do is sit back. Even if Craft can get to the lane, he doesn't have any options after that besides trying to get his own.

But he does make others better. His leadership. His great defense he creates opportunities for others to run, he has times where he can create but he can't make the guys around him great shooters if they can't shoot. He can't make Amir learn how to catch. That is where the problem is at more to me. Now does he have the play making ability of someone like Evan Turner/Jared Sullinger and draws double teams? No, I will not go there. But he does make his team better.

You know who Aaron Craft kinda reminds me of a little bit? Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow was not the most talented QB but if you wanted someone to lead you at the college level, he was the guy. Team player. That is Aaron Craft. He is not the most talented guy, but he is a great leader, winner, and team player. That is what he does. Those are things he has that others don't. ANd just like Tebow, you know you're going to get 110% from Craft all game long. Other players take plays off(usually on the defensive end), not Craft. He is all go.

I was listening to Jay Bilas on 97.1 today(he was the guest on the Buckeye show) and he talked about Craft. Said there will be no one like him and also said he thinks he can make it in the NBA. Had a lot of great things to say about him. Dan Dakich was on there also and gave Craft a lot of love also but he does that on TV all the time.

Aaron Craft gets a lot of respect from CBB players he has gone up against, CBB experts on TV, and CBB coaches.

Case in point, before this year, someone asked coaches of some CBB teams if they could add one guy to their team(from another team) who would it be? Aaron Craft came in as #4 most picked. Marcus Smart was #1, Doug McDermott #2, Andrew Wiggins #3. Craft was the 4th most picked.

Here is what one coached said:

I love what Craft brings to the table, each and every night on both ends of the floor. And he is a bonafide leader. And that everyone loves to hate on him. He's the perfect model of the kid you hate with a passion if you are playing against him, but you would want on your team every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Aaron Craft is not as talented as Evan Turner or Jared Sullinger. But he makes as big as an impact as them. And I would have to think real hard about getting 4yrs of Craft vs 3yrs of Turner/2yrs of Sullinger to most likely win me a NC.

[victor2111]

Mar 8, 2014 0:00:50 GMT -5 angrybaldman said:

You need craft for defense, plus a good locker room / intangibles guy which Evan was not. Evan needed for things to revolve around him, but on a team like this he would sulk and pout.

I agree with Vic's list, I'd have Jamar Butler higher. Might need another big in there

#6-#13 was hard. All of those guys are close and add different things. Just depends what you think would mean more to winning you a NC.

- Butler. Shooter, can score, can play PG, 4 year guy, solid throughout his career.
- Thomas. Best scorer. Rebounds later in his career. Get 3 years of him, 2 years of great scoring ability.
- Diebler. You get 4 years, best 3pt shooter on the list. 3 years of dominating 3pt shooting. You get 3 years of a guy that can open space on the floor because someone has to be on him.
- Lighty. Does it all. 4 year guy, 3 really good year player. Very good defender. Can have big offensive games at time, improve his shooting(40% 3pt shooter senior year).
- Buford. A scorer/shooter. Could hit big shots, have big games, 4 year guy, and solid all 4 years. Could have off nights though.
- Dials. 4 year guy. PF. Could score/rebound. Poor man Sully.
- Lewis. Clutch. Shooter. Scorer. Hit big shot after big shot in his career.
- Ross. Most likely a 4 year guy also if he returns for one more year. Very good scorer.


So they all add different things. It was hard for me to pick which one I thought would have a bigger impact on me winning a NC. They're very good role players. Just depends what role you look more at. A guy that can score and play the 1/2(Butler), 3pt shooter(Diebler), defender/offense(Lighty), scorers at the 3/4(Thomas, Ross, Buford, Lewis).

There is no big guy that I think could impact my team on winning a NC. Mullens for one year? No thanks. Koufos for one year? No thanks. Ravenel? I think the guys above have bigger impact on helping me. We really lack really good big guys but so do a lot of college programs. Maybe that should move Sully/Dials up the list a bit.

[mauricxe]

I'll just do a starting lineup:

I'll take

Oden - dominating big man. plays defense and can score
Diebler - not a better threat on the outside
Craft - Shutdown defender.
Conley - Best PG, scorer, and defender combo we have. Also quick.
Turner - I didn't know who to pick between him or Thomas. I don't remember who has the better shot or who plays better defense....so I went with the NPOY.

[victor2111]

Mar 8, 2014 16:59:33 GMT -5 mauricxe said:

I'll just do a starting lineup:

I'll take

Oden - dominating big man. plays defense and can score
Diebler - not a better threat on the outside
Craft - Shutdown defender.
Conley - Best PG, scorer, and defender combo we have. Also quick.
Turner - I didn't know who to pick between him or Thomas. I don't remember who has the better shot or who plays better defense....so I went with the NPOY.

Starting 5?
Center: Oden. Easily. Shot Blocker. Not just that but he changed so many shots and scared people to drive. Rebounds. Can score. He was the perfect center.
PF: Sullinger. Talk about a perfect 4/5 in college, that was Sully/Oden. Sully weakness? Defense. Oden helps hide that. Sullinger was 18/10 all day! He is the perfect 4 in college. Post game, mid range jumper, rebounds.

Those are my two big guys. I have two guys who can grab 10+ boards. I have two guys who can score. They're a perfect team.


PG Conley Jr easily. As you said, best PG, can score, can create for others, can get to the hoop, can defend. All great.

So Conley at the 1, Sully at the 4, Oden at the 5. All 3 work PERFECTLY together. That is thing to remmeber. There is only 1 basketball so you need to find guys that can work in the system. This guys are perfect for each other.

SG/SF
There is what it gets tough. You have 5 guys left competing for the last 2 spots. Turner, Thomas, Diebler, Lighty, and Craft.

- One guy that is a MOST for me is Jon Diebler. His 3pt shooting open the floor up and if you leave him open, he will make you pay. The dude was a 50% 3pt shooter his senior year. I HAVE TO HAVE THAT ON MY TEAM. You need a 3pt shooter. The thing with Diebler is, I rather put him at the 2(SG) than the 3(SF) if I could. Because I can hide his defense better at the 2 spot.

So now 4 guys left for my last spot. Turner/Thomas/Lighty/Craft. Craft has to play the 1 or 2. Thomas has to play 3/4. Lighty/Turner could play the 1-4 in college. I'm taking Thomas off because I don't need anotehr scorer. He would be great on this team but I rather have a defender over a scorer. I want to have a great offense and defense. Not just an amazing offense but average defense. If I take Craft, I have to put Diebler at the 3. The 3 is usually the other guy best scoring option. That hurts, but do I take that gamble? If I have Conley/Craft/Oden I have 3 great defenders. Lighty is a very good defnder though also and could play the 3 to keep Jon at the 2. Or I could add Turner who can score, rebound, run the offense if needed, pass, bad defense though.

Really it a tough choice. The last spot to me comes down to Lighty, Craft, and Turner(Turner > Thomas). Craft if you want the best defnder, Lighty if you want the very good defender at the 3, Turner if you want a scorer/rebound/pass. I'm going to pass on Turner, yes the NPOY, I'm passing on him. Can you believe that? It comes down to Craft vs Lighty and I give Craft the slight edge. This was tougher because I think having a good defnder at the 3 is huge.

So my starting 5
PG: Conley
SG: Craft
SF: Diebler
PF: Sullinger
C: Oden

I have 3 great defenders in Oden(C), Conley(PG), Craft(SG).
I have 2 great rebounders in Sully/Oden. Both 10+ Guys
I have 1 elite 3pt shooter in Diebler to open the floor
I have 2 guys who can bring the ball up in Conley/Craft
I have 1 guy who can create for others and himself at the rim in Conley
I have a great post up guy in Sullinger

I have everything I need. This was tough. Leaving a guy like Turner out is tough. He was NPOY and amazing. If I didn't have a guy like Conley, I would have Turner in there because he can create. But there is only 1 basketball to go around, so I need to find 5 guys that will fit together.

[mauricxe]

I like your list. I wanted to put Sully there but didn't know if keeping him and Oden on at once was okay. But your explanation is right on. You know lots more about basketball and breaking down each position....so i'm gonna trust your opinion.

[victor2111]

I left Evan Turner off my list, the NPOY and will have his # retired at tOSU one day. I'm not sure if my list is right.

Not only that but he is someone that cna play the 1, 2, 3, and 4. I want to see TPE list(and others) also. TPE is a Bearcats fan so it is cool to get outsider opinion. Cincy also. It is a fun topic. There are quite a few good Buckeyes that have played here under Matta.

I like your list a lot also. Only difference is I've Sully and you've Turner. We both got 3 elite defenders, 1 elite shooter. Turner adds something Sully can't add(Ball handling).


Not going to lie, I almost put Lighty in there instead of Craft. With Lighty, he could guard the best #2 or #3. So if the other team best player is an #3, and 6-7, Lighty could make him work. Craft? Craft can guard the #1 or #2 mostly. So that means Diebler would guard the best scorer. I think Craft is a better defender but Lighty can defend more positions and a very good defender himself. Lighty adds a slightly better shooter/could go up and dunk on offense also if left open.

Conley/Diebler/Lighty/Sully/Oden


The only thing that is certain is there is only 1 legit Center under Matta and that is Greg Oden.

[Deleted]

If building a team, I would take both of either Lighty or Turner over Craft. I prefer length on the court and both of those guys provide it. Turner is a strong ball handler and a much bigger offensive threat than Craft.

If you don't let Craft run point(which you wouldn't over Conley), then you're making Craft simply a defensive stopper which just doesn't fly for me. If I wanted to keep my defense even stronger but still pose and offensive threat, then I would add Lighty. I just don't see Craft fitting for me if he's not running point.

Conley/Turner/Diebler/Sully/Oden for me.

[victor2111]

Mar 8, 2014 21:01:16 GMT -5 @theurbaneffect said:

If building a team, I would take both of either Lighty or Turner over Craft. I prefer length on the court and both of those guys provide it. Turner is a strong ball handler and a much bigger offensive threat than Craft.

If you don't let Craft run point(which you wouldn't over Conley), then you're making Craft simply a defensive stopper which just doesn't fly for me. If I wanted to keep my defense even stronger but still pose and offensive threat, then I would add Lighty. I just don't see Craft fitting for me if he's not running point.

Conley/Turner/Diebler/Sully/Oden for me.

Yeah, that is why I said I should probably add Lighty. I think he fits better even though Craft is a better defender at his position. Only problem is Conley can do that already. I rather have a defender at the 3 and Lighty adds more offense potential.


My only thing about the above, which is a great team, Conley/Turner are two guys that want the ball in their hands. How does that work? That is probably the most talented team but do they fit together perfectly?

[victor2111]

Best offensive teams:

Conley/Turner/Diebler/Sully/Oden & Conley/Diebler/Thomas/Sully/Oden. Thomas adds the fact he doesn't need ball in his hand as much. He might fit better?

Best defensive teams without killing the offense completely.

Conly/Craft/Diebler/Sully/Oden & Conley/Diebler/Lighty/Sully/Oden.



I think those are probably the top 4 in the end. Just depends on what you want and how you think it will fit. I think Conley/Diebler/Sully/Oden are a must.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2014 21:01:16 GMT -5 @theurbaneffect said:

If building a team, I would take both of either Lighty or Turner over Craft. I prefer length on the court and both of those guys provide it. Turner is a strong ball handler and a much bigger offensive threat than Craft.

If you don't let Craft run point(which you wouldn't over Conley), then you're making Craft simply a defensive stopper which just doesn't fly for me. If I wanted to keep my defense even stronger but still pose and offensive threat, then I would add Lighty. I just don't see Craft fitting for me if he's not running point.

Conley/Turner/Diebler/Sully/Oden for me.

This!