Tim Tebow Retires

[victor2111]

Jan 4, 2010 17:55:32 GMT -5 Andrew - Resident Gator said:

Jan 4, 2010 17:42:19 GMT -5 victor2111 said:

That is a different type of clutch. Like in basketball Derek Fisher is clutch, not the greatest player but always hits big shots for the LAL. VY is the same with Texas/Titans now. When the game is on the line he wins. Show how, some way, he will find away to win his team the game(QB top job). When Florida was down in the 4th Q, Tebow didn't do that(if I remember right).

It can make a average play look better than he is. : ) Kinda like Vince Young. He might not be the best QB in the NFL but he is one of the top 3 players you want when the game is on the line.


Not my best argument but I try sometimes. : )

How our minds forget so quickly.

Tim lead the Gators back to a last second field goal against Arkansas this year, Led Florida to a 31- 20 win over Alabama last SECCG (down by 2 touchdowns in the 4th quarter), tied 14-14 against Oklahoma in the NC game last year, Tim vaulted the Gators to a 24-14 win.

His only blemishes (when the game was completely in his hands, and attainable) Ole Miss, and Alabama this year.

To be fair, Tim and the Gators haven't had very many opprotunities to be down in the 4th, but nonetheless, Tim has lifted his team to victory in the 4th quarter his fair share of times, not to mention all of the 3rd/4th down conversions he has made throughout his career.

So I don't think it's fair to put VY on a higher field than Tim when it comes to the clutch factor either.

Good points i guess but I still want to post my VY stats since it took me time to look them up a long time ago.


Vince Young GW 4th Q drives in College & NFL

Ohio State(2005), USC(2005), Michigan(2004), Kansas(2004), Kansas State(2003).

Seattle(2009) Miami(2009) Houston(2009), Arizona(2009), Jacksonville(2007), Atlanta(2007), Colts(2007), Washington(2006), Giants(2006), Colts(2006), Houston(2006), Buffalo(2006).

5in College & 12 in the NFL if I did my calculations right.

[Andrew - Resident Gator]

No, it's still a valid point. VY has been getting it done on the NFL level, but I see nothing that VY has done that TT couldn't do, given their collegiate similarities.

[Andrew - Resident Gator]

Eating a little grub, i'll post my Tim Tebow scouting report afterwards.

[Andrew - Resident Gator]

Okay, here's my analysis of Tim without bias, and based on what i've seen, and he has shown the ability to demonstrate. I graded him on things scouts look for, Size, Arm Strength, Arm Speed, Accuracy, Touch, Set up, Delivery/Release, Running Ability, Pocket Presense, Poise, Decision Making, Locating Receivers, Leadership; taking the bulk of the grading

Tim Tebow
6-3 245lbs

Size - A - Strong, Athletic football player, good height to see over line and locate receivers.
Arm Strength - B - Great touch on deep balls of 30+ yards, ability to gun ball down the middle. Out routes in question, most noticable, deep out, cross patterns, and far side short out. Nice touch on swing passes.
Arm Speed - C- - Slow delivery, un-effective "pump" fake. Upper body mechanics need to emulate mid section and hip mechanics to increase speed. Setting feet will also help speed.
Accuracy - B- - Deadly accurate in the red zone, more so end zone passing. Ben Roethlisberger esque. Mid field accuracy normally ahead of receivers, rarely behind. Normally low, rarely high. Catchable ball, given athletic receivers and larger than normal receivers.
Touch - C - Besides red zone targeting, and deep ball accuracy, other throws are wobbly, at best. Not very tight spin, potato ball.
Set up - D+ - Footwork is terrible. Worse than upper body movement. Good hip placement and follow through, but footwork setup and shoulder setup is terrible. With extensive training and practice of 3 and 5 step drops from now and roster cuts, footwork should increase, in turn making the shoulders and hip set up fall in line.
Delivery/Realease - D+ - I can't completely give him an F, because the kid throws the football, and scores touchdowns, it's very low, very sidearmy, and very slow, but, with the right QB coach this motion can be retrained and tweaked to not completely remove sidearm, but to cope with it (Much like VInce Young). Bringing the ball up is a major part of this problem. Retraining to keep the ball in his ear hole, and realease at the top of his motion should help clear up the delivery.
Running Ability - B+ - Lacks top end speed to break for a long TD run, but has the proven ability to make first downs, and break from 10-20 yard gains with feet.
Pocket Presense - B- - High number of sacks, resulting from lots of scrambling and force outs, not because of pocket collaspe and inability to move. Shows good ability to stay in pocket when making the deep pass, and moves up in the pocket when defensive ends have pursued too deep.
Poise - c+ - Tends to not wait for men to open, not to say he doesn't, but more times than not, will run before men get open.
Decision Making - B- - Throws very little interceptions, but does not have to think too much in the passing game at Florida. Florida plays a 1-2 step read, very rarely using a 3rd or 4th step option. Not necesarily Tims fault, so it's hard to judge how good his reads can be at the next level.
Locating Receivers - B+ - Ability to find the open man, but lacks ability of foresight to pass the man open. Again, may be the style of play where he isn't forced to make those decisions, another question mark.
Leadership - A - Enough said.

C+ Mechanics, and measurables

Character - A+ - As good as it gets. Brings instant recognition to your team and relatability to your fanbase. Merchandise, and endorsement machine.
Competiveness - A - Has a will to win, clear emotional leader, that takes wins and loses very personally, strives to always be better than the next player.
Mental Preparation and Awareness - B+ - Mental capacities for the complicated NFL offenses in question, but has not had any problem preparing at the collegiate level
Athleticism - A - Abilty to make teams gameplan around him. Multidimensional player who can beat you in different ways.
Consistentcy - B - Gym Rat, Film Rat, practice junky, but can that translate at the next level?
Injuries - B - Shoulder injury Sophomore year, freak concussion Senior year, seems unaffected. Off season knee surgery (braced). Takes a lot of hits at collegiate level with little consequence.

B+ Intangibles, and immeasurables.

B Overall Rating.

NFL Comparison, Byron Leftwich. Good size, speed, couldn't quite grasp the concepts and speed of the NFL, but does he have the same work ethic as Tim?

I don't know where Tim sits on a lot of teams draft boards, but I see him high on a couple. Jacksonville, Miami, and Potentially New England.

Jacksonville - They need a quarterback, someone to mold, they seem ready for a dual threat QB who can perform better then Byron. Hometown hero effect, ticket sales, and merch machine. I could see them taking him early first round, just to secure him.

Miami - The team who is the most ready for a player like Tim would be Miami, with their Wildcate fully in place, and their let it all hang out offense, they can utilize a player like Tim. I project Chann Pennington will not be back next year, They could bring Tim in to compete with Henne, and Pat White (who I think will end up at WR, or ATH position evenutally). They could still run a dual threat approach with Henne and Tebow, much like Leak and Tebow in 2006. Again, Florida would love to see him playing in state, and would eat up merch.

New England - No, i'm not smoking crack. Bill Belicheck and Urban Meyer are close friends and Bill loves football players. Bill will take a football player with the ability to learn and mold him into what he wants them to be. I think Tim, playing under Tom Bradys wing (Next year will be his 11th NFL year) and receiving guidance from one of the best coaching staffs in the country, could very well turn out to be a great addition for Bill Belicheck and the Patriots. This is an outside pick, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.


All in all, I think Tim's upside, determination, will to compete, and drive to become better will ultimately land him a starting gig in the NFL after 2-3 years of practice, trial/error, and progression. Is he worth a first round pick? Depends on who you ask. I think the kid has overcome everything that has been throw before him, and has silenced critics time and time again. I think this is another stage for Tim to silence more critics and to prove he can do just another thing that people said, he couldn't do.

Going to try to find those videos now to back up some of these statements.

[bkleo504]

I don't want to step in between you guys' fight, but I mean realistically discussing the prospect of Tebow quitting, then that'd be an absolute joke of a move on his part. Think about it, Tebow has never really faced a huge challenge in his life that he and most others thought he wouldn't conquer. Finally he's reached a mountain that he has to climb, it'd be an awful move to quit on his part now that the going's gotten tough.

[bkleo504]

BL for the analysis Andy, seems like a very solid assessment...Except I had to chuckle a bit at the mental preparation part, you spend time preparing with Tebow? lol

[Andrew - Resident Gator]

Jan 4, 2010 19:32:02 GMT -5 bkleo504 said:

BL for the analysis Andy, seems like a very solid assessment...Except I had to chuckle a bit at the mental preparation part, you spend time preparing with Tebow? lol

Tug jobs, all around.

But in all seriousness, i've just been around guys who are intense like he is, and they have been great at preparing themselves. Or just mental nutjobs, one of the two.

[bkleo504]

BTW definitely add Minnesota to your list, the way I see it Tebow could have as much as two years to sit on the bench if Favre comes back assuming we're not lucky enough to win the SB. Then when he retires, TJ and Rosenfels will likely get their shot to see if they can start. On top of that, we already have Percy and Childress loves guys like Tebow. Hell he could really use a guy who buys into his system and be on his side unlike Favre lol.

[Deleted]

I still do not know how the NFL has not figured VY out. The guy ran a SINGLE READ offense at Texass. So he basically dropped back, and if ONE receiver was not open, he ran the ball. IMO Tebow is much better pre snap and they both have an awkward delivery, but you never know what will work until you see it. Look at Matt Leinart, everyone had him as the next great QB in the NFL, and the guy is awful. On the flip side, I never thought much of Aaron Rogers, but he has turned out to be a very good NFL QB.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2010 17:19:54 GMT -5 Andrew - Resident Gator said:

Jan 4, 2010 17:12:51 GMT -5 @thepryoreffect said:

He might have a strong arm(I don't personally think it's anything special) but guiding a pass to a receiver in college from 40 yards out and doing it in the pros where you have to hit one exact spot are two different things. Also, arm strength isn't all about throwing the ball deep, it's also being able to throw it with speed over the middle and hitting your receiver in stride. That will be a big thing that will determine his success or lack thereof in the NFL.

40 yards on a high school field, 40 yards on a college field, and 40 yards in the NFL is the same thing. You obviously have not watched the games where Tim has put the ball exactly where it needed to be to Riley Cooper at least 4 times off the top of my head, threading DB's and into the only spot Cooper could catch it. He has made many Roethlisberger esque throws in the endzone, just this very year.

You tube is blocked at work, but i'll try my hardest to find some of these throws i'm talking about. I wish I would have recorded the games onto my computer so I could make my own compilation.

I agree it's not all about the deep ball, but to flat out say he can't "gun it in" is just ignorance of the player. I invite you to actually study Tim, and i'll pull up some videos that I can find that show what i'm talking about.

The biggest part of his arm strength that I initially thor w ared flag with, is his across the formation, across the has, across the field... He tends to float cross throws, and will get jumped everytime for pick 6's.

Again, let me get home to find some videos. No offense, but you've been reading too much, and not forming your own educated opinions.

Say what?